Author Topic: Things you don't see on the news  (Read 158099 times)

Offline miriamac

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9255 on: October 07, 2022, 10:30:48 pm »
That they receive public funding and should (a) not discriminate in the provision of services, and (b) set a good example both in an educational setting and for wider society in not discriminating.
I think they receive some funding and facilities from their "parent" institution.

What's the relevant legislation for '(a)' and'(b)'?

If student unions don't receive funding from their "parent" institution would they be subject to the same legislation?

What 'exemptions' are there?

Offline Cornucopia

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9256 on: October 07, 2022, 10:43:42 pm »
What's the relevant legislation for '(a)' and'(b)'?

If student unions don't receive funding from their "parent" institution would they be subject to the same legislation?

What 'exemptions' are there?

Mainly the Equality Act.  Also Article 14 of HRA, which is geared to discrimination as it applies to the other rights (and I presume that it would cover the supplementary article regarding the Right to Education).

Most Student Unions would at least be using college facilities for their events and most (according to the NUS) receive funds.

Exemptions?  The main one regards positive discrimination for work, which obviously doesn't apply here.

We talk a lot about "optics" and I think that's really what we're talking about here.   I'd quite like to attend one of the events to see how they validate a person's entitlement to attend - I think that could be quite illuminating.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 10:47:30 pm by Cornucopia »
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Offline miriamac

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9257 on: October 08, 2022, 12:32:03 am »
Mainly the Equality Act.  Also Article 14 of HRA, which is geared to discrimination as it applies to the other rights (and I presume that it would cover the supplementary article regarding the Right to Education).

Most Student Unions would at least be using college facilities for their events and most (according to the NUS) receive funds.

Exemptions?  The main one regards positive discrimination for work, which obviously doesn't apply here.

We talk a lot about "optics" and I think that's really what we're talking about here.   I'd quite like to attend one of the events to see how they validate a person's entitlement to attend - I think that could be quite illuminating.

Which particular sections of the Equality Act did you have in mind?  How do you see the HRA as applying?

When I asked about 'exemptions', I should also have added/clarified 'exceptions', and "proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim".  Apologies.  My post was written in haste, between household tasks, to try to bring out further areas of discussion.

You didn't disagree with the example I gave about my recent training, but you disagreed that the principle could be extended to restrictions on attendance at some Black History Month events. And you wondered about entitlement to attend.

From the snippets shared on my course, 'those whose lives had been touched by suicide' included: family member died by suicide; friend shared thoughts of suicide (and how that was dealt with); finding someone who was attempting suicide or had died by suicide.

There was a direct experience.

Does someone who 'passes' have the same direct experience as someone who is visibly black or mixed race?  What about someone who 'passes' until they speak, and an accent or nuance is noticed?

Positive discrimination is unlawful in the UK.  Did you mean positive action? 
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Offline Cor Blimey

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9258 on: October 08, 2022, 07:23:22 am »
:o    >:(

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11293101/Grandmother-93-died-agony-following-fall-call-handler-ignored-cries.html

Frail Rose Belk, 93, was put through to a call centre operated by her local council after activating an accident alert button she wore on a lanyard.

In a harrowing two-minute recording, the pensioner – known as Dolly – is heard apparently saying ‘Help me!’ and moaning in pain.

But a call handler in a noisy office asks her to speak more loudly and then hangs up when she doesn’t understand Mrs Belk’s pleas.

The operator failed to call an ambulance or contact Mrs Belk’s family – meaning the pensioner was still lying on the floor of her home near Barnsley, South Yorkshire, when her son Andy, 64, made his daily visit later.

 Her son, a retired telecommunications engineer, has now received an apology and £1,000 in damages after taking Barnsley Council to court.

Offline Cornucopia

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9259 on: October 08, 2022, 08:59:15 am »
Which particular sections of the Equality Act did you have in mind?  How do you see the HRA as applying?
In the general sense that discrimination in access to public services on the basis of a protected characteristic may be unlawful.   

Quote
When I asked about 'exemptions', I should also have added/clarified 'exceptions', and "proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim".  Apologies.  My post was written in haste, between household tasks, to try to bring out further areas of discussion.
Yes - and the key question here is what is the aim, is it legitimate and is it rational.  I don't doubt there are "reasons" why this kind of thing could be technically legal, but I still hold to the principle that discrimination on the grounds of race is a generally bad thing, and not only that but I don't regard that view as particularly controversial.

I'm also quite happy to confirm that I am grimly fascinated by the practical mechanics of validating a person's entitlement to attend an event that has a racial "bar".    Do they have a notice like the racist landlords of days gone by?   "No Whites, No Irish, No Gypsies, No Jews, No French, No Greeks..." and so on.  Sad to see some identities making a repeat appearance there.

Quote
You didn't disagree with the example I gave about my recent training, but you disagreed that the principle could be extended to restrictions on attendance at some Black History Month events. And you wondered about entitlement to attend.

From the snippets shared on my course, 'those whose lives had been touched by suicide' included: family member died by suicide; friend shared thoughts of suicide (and how that was dealt with); finding someone who was attempting suicide or had died by suicide.
That sounds okay to me.   Were people whose lives had not been "touched by suicide" actively excluded, or was it less formalised than that?

Quote
Does someone who 'passes' have the same direct experience as someone who is visibly black or mixed race?  What about someone who 'passes' until they speak, and an accent or nuance is noticed?
Not sure what you mean by "passes".   Or indeed, what the relevance of accent is.  We also have this on-going issue of terminology - I am "mixed race", but I am not black.   Am I visibly "mixed race"?  Maybe - in a certain light. 

Quote
Positive discrimination is unlawful in the UK.  Did you mean positive action?
Yes.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 09:03:02 am by Cornucopia »
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Offline Relax

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9260 on: October 08, 2022, 10:18:40 am »



🤡
Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants.

-Epictetus
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Offline Pyxis

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9261 on: October 08, 2022, 11:39:15 am »
Word Nerd and Apostrophe Pedant 😁
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Offline michaels

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9262 on: October 08, 2022, 06:39:44 pm »
Oh fgs, is this where we are now as a society? That the first thing that is thought about when watching the prince trying to wake sleeping beauty, is sexual assault? If this is the way things are going I'm bloody glad I'm old and will be stardust before the lunatics completely take over the asylum!

If someone one of my daughters had met once decided to try and kiss them whilst they were sleeping I would 'take a very dim view of it'
I think....
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Offline Pyxis

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9263 on: October 08, 2022, 07:06:56 pm »
If someone one of my daughters had met once decided to try and kiss them whilst they were sleeping I would 'take a very dim view of it'

But would she be asleep on a bier in the middle of a tangled forest? ;D
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Offline Pixel

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9264 on: October 08, 2022, 08:03:13 pm »
I, the willing, led by the un-knowing, do the impossible for the ungrateful. I have done so much, for so long, with so little, that I am now qualified to do anything with nothing.


Online Morbier

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9265 on: October 08, 2022, 08:22:24 pm »
Truss hails ‘milestone’ as UK exports lamb to US for first time since 1989

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/truss-hails-milestone-as-uk-exports-lamb-to-us-for-first-time-since-1989/ar-AA12JVxf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5491e2542e8a4db7ba6a9b6cece8d257

Bit Baamey if you ask me ...


😱😱😱😱😱😱

Why did they have to show a picture of a baby lamb?
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Offline Pyxis

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9266 on: October 08, 2022, 08:28:27 pm »

😱😱😱😱😱😱

Why did they have to show a picture of a baby lamb?
☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️

Just remember that they are teenage thugs* by the time they go for slaughter, and no longer those baby lambs.



* Description given to me once by a sheep farmer, when I was at their open day bottle-feeding a baby lamb.
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Offline michaels

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9267 on: October 08, 2022, 08:30:46 pm »
But would she be asleep on a bier in the middle of a tangled forest? ;D

Knowing my daughters, quite possibly, it might also be a magical deep sleep as a result of too much magic potion (vodka)
I think....
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Offline Pixel

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9268 on: October 08, 2022, 08:35:49 pm »

😱😱😱😱😱😱

Why did they have to show a picture of a baby lamb?
☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️

Rather than mutton dressed up as lamb?  Who knows?
I, the willing, led by the un-knowing, do the impossible for the ungrateful. I have done so much, for so long, with so little, that I am now qualified to do anything with nothing.


Offline Marisco

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Re: Things you don't see on the news
« Reply #9269 on: October 09, 2022, 08:28:09 am »
If someone one of my daughters had met once decided to try and kiss them whilst they were sleeping I would 'take a very dim view of it'
Yep, it would certainly be dim, you'd be dead....she'd have been asleep 100 years before prince charming came along :D
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